A Drop of Chinese Blood

Tuesday, November 13, 2012

SPEAKER:

James Church
Author of A Drop of Chinese Blood


Moderated by
Stephen Noerper
Senior Vice President, The Korea Society

STEPHEN NOERPER: (Moderator):
Good evening and welcome to The Korea Society. We're so glad to have you here (particularly after Hurricane Sandy) and we appreciate you sharing your time with us. There will be an audio podcast of tonight's event to share with you, and I wish to take a moment to thank both the Tong Yang Group (which supports our podcast recordings here at The Korea Society) as well as the Samsung Group for its support of this lovely studio.

I also wish to thank Mr. Church for flying in from Beijing to be here with us tonight. His latest work, A Drop of Chinese Blood, is being formerly released today and follows his four Inspector O novels, all available via e-book and iBooks. We also have hard copies of the book available for purchase courtesy of Mobile Libris. Mr. Church has kindly agreed to stay for a signing.We encourage you to spread the good word about this release. The reviews so far have been very positive, and we're absolutely delighted to have him here.

In 2007, The Korea Society hosted a session covering Mr. Church's first book, A Corpse in the Koryo, which included luminaries such as Ambassador Stephen Bosworth commenting on the uniqueness of the book's approach, as well as its importance in terms of understanding North Korea. As we did not have Mr. Church with us at that time, I'm especially delighted that he's here for the release of this new series.

The new book is a slight departure from his earlier four books, as he introduces new characters. Inspector O is back, but we also have Bing, O's nephew and the director of state security from the Yanji Sector in Northeast China. There are also a lot of colorful characters (which he may elect to talk about) including the world's loveliest woman, Madam Fang. We salute her tonight by sharing some blood-red La Linda ("The Beauty") wine in the back. This book includes North Korean cooks, Mongolian contortionists, and other unusual characters.

Welcome, James. Please share any opening thoughts you may have for us.

JAMES CHURCH:
Steve, thank you very much. As a matter of a fact, I was here for the discussion of A Corpse in the Koryo, but I was hidden in the audience. Nobody knew I was here. I really enjoyed listening to everyone's interpretation of what James Church meant by this and by that. That was a lot of fun. This is actually my first book launch. In fact, I rarely make an appearance.

In truth, I'm not launching a new series. My publisher decided that this book would be a good vehicle with which to shift the series in a slightly different direction. (I thought it was the final book of the old series and the last book I would ever write.) The publisher responded with, "Smashing. We're beginning a new series." In addition, all the reviews start with: "Oh, this is great. A terrific new series."

STEPHEN NOERPER:
So, now you're obligated to write several new books.

JAMES CHURCH:
Well, I'm stuck, but I've already created a title for the next one; so now I feel obligated to write it. I'm not going to tell you what the title is, but it's a pip. I love it.

There was a good article in the New York Times today about the author Herman Wouk. He's ninety-seven years old, and his first book was published the year I was born.

MALE:
The first half of the twentieth century.

JAMES CHURCH:
Yes. It was the first half of the twentieth century, as a matter of fact. I think of Herman Wouk as an author. I don't consider myself an author in that way. I'm not sure I can call myself a writer. I'm not even sure how the books became written, but there are five of them on the shelf. I figure that, at the least, this allows me to comment on the enormous debate in the publishing world about e-books versus printed books.

I don't have an answer to the questions that are being asked in regard to that, but I do have a perspective on it, and I'll share that with you. Picture in your mind a seat in the international business class of a flight across the Pacific. The penalty for sitting in business class is you have no place to store your things. You can't put anything under the seat or in front of you. If you're not too wide, you can put something on the seat next to you; otherwise it has to be stored in an overhead compartment.

I was reading a wonderful book, The Hare with Amber Eyes. The book is beautifully written, beautifully printed, and beautifully bound. It also has, for some reason, very sharp edges. So, I had it sitting right next to me in the seat because I wanted to read it during the flight. Then I decided to get something from the overhead compartment. As I sat down, there was a ripping sound. I realized l would not get up again until they lowered the window shades and they lowered the lights in the cabin. The corners of this wonderful book had ripped my trousers from waist to thigh. [Laughter] And I thought to myself, Well, you can't do that with a Kindle.

Later that evening, I was sitting in a hotel overseas somewhere (it doesn't matter where). There was a table in front of me with a small candle lit for ambiance. I was reading another very good book: Meltdown by Mike Chinoy. I read about a chapter, and I set the book on the table. I pulled out my computer, and I opened it up to my Speak Italian! program. I'm learning Italian. Molto bene.

As I was studying the Italian, I noticed the aroma of roasting chestnuts. It was wonderful. Suddenly the manager swooped down on my table, grabbed the book (which was sitting on the candle), pulled the candle away, and handed me back the book. I was mortified. The book was burning (it was melting actually). The back cover of the book had a hole in it, and some damage had been done to the last chapter.

Once I finished the drink, I turned to the waitress and asked for the check. She told me there was no charge. I reminded her I could have burned the hotel down and again asked her for the bill. She advised me the manager did not wish to charge me. I thought to myself, I just received a free drink. You couldn't do that with a Kindle. [Laughing]

So, the debate goes on. It's between your trousers and a free drink. I'm ready for your questions now.

STEPHEN NOERPER:
My first question to you is about the book's characters and their development as you move into this new series.

JAMES CHURCH:
When I started this journey with Inspector O, I didn't want to use a mystery story as a means to better understand dictatorships. I wanted to use a dictatorship to explore the limits of mystery stories. I picked North Korea because I know so much about it. I've worked there for many years. It's always helpful to write on a topic that you know at least something about.

I challenged myself to fit the pieces of a traditional noir detective story into an alien setting—what most Americans would consider completely alien—and that's North Korea. The mystery format comes alive and helps to illuminate the human element; and the setting, itself, provides the nuance and texture for the story: the sounds, the feel, the taste. Now, the menacing setting of North Korea is especially useful, because it provides this low rumble, like thunder, in the background.

I had to be very careful. I realized that if I put too much emphasis on the political aspect of this equation, it would overwhelm the rest of the story. Because the story is based in North Korea, I couldn't be very clear about what was actually occurring there. I didn't want the reader to become distracted and unable to concentrate on what was actually happening in the story.

I realized I had no way to replicate any thoughts going through the mind of a North Korean policeman. That's why the series does not depict police procedurals (in the standard definition of the term). As a matter of fact, every time I went to North Korea, I stayed as far away from the police as I possibly could. I did not want to end up in a North Korean police interrogation room, even if it meant having genuine experience to color my stories. That was never part of my plan.

I think everybody will agree that to some extent law enforcement is inherently coercive. It has to be. Some places it's more coercive and heavy-handed than other places; but everywhere, basically, if you get caught up with the police, it can be a bruising experience. In most societies, people learn to adapt. That element of life gets tuned out, they try not to pay attention to it, and they try to get on with their own lives. The general approach is to avoid political landmines. You just learn to navigate around them. You keep your nose clean, you get on with your existence, and as we know from recent news, you create a good system to manage your e-mails. [Laughter]

So, we have the repressive state of North Korea in the book, but the actual repression is not what I wanted as the focal point of these books. The O stories are really about the mundane: the frayed wires of the bureaucracy, the sharpened sticks of old, organizational combat, and the petty challenges of everyday existence. This is what North Korean people face every day, just like everybody else.

The end result was that even though Italian mystery writers are able to give their own characters much better food to eat than I could, Inspector O could sit at the bar with one of these other characters and they could trade stories as they felt each other's pain. There's a common link between these chaps in law enforcement.

Now, some people think that a lens depicting everyday life in North Korea trivializes evil. My view is you can't write a good story if the moral orchestra is just sawing away in the background. That's really propaganda, and that's not what I'm interested in writing.

STEPHEN NOERPER:
A couple of pieces that have been written on your book (one in Slate and then Barbara Demick's piece in the Los Angeles Times) emphasize your ability to humanize O and show him as something of a traditionalist; something of a survivor but yet somebody who relates to his environment. Was that part of your approach? Were you attempting to humanize O and depict him in that vein? To show him as a pragmatic, surviving individual?

JAMES CHURCH:
As I said, my beginning position was to put a noir story in a new, unusual setting and see if it survived. I wanted to see if you could credibly take the characters from a noir story (the gum-chewing detective) and have him function in North Korea matching my interpretation of the manner in which I see North Koreans function in their own society. Of course, the readers will be the judge of my ultimate success in doing this.

I like Inspector O. Based on my experiences with North Koreans over many years, I see O as a completely credible North Korean character who has an internal life that he keeps separate from the demands of the regime. The one thing readers complain about the most is that he's not wearing the pin. They say that would never happen in North Korea. Well, there is at least one picture of Kim Jong-un's wife where she doesn't wear a pin. So, life follows art. She may even be modeling Inspector O. I don't know. [Laughter]. I'm hopeful.

Another question is what's better than setting the story in one police state? The answer is setting it in two or three police states. And that's what A Drop of Chinese Blood does. As Steve said, this is set in China, Mongolia, and North Korea. Mongolia is currently emerging from being a totalitarian state.

However, even though their heart is in the right place in Mongolia, certain habits linger. China, today, likes to believe that it's only moderately totalitarian, and anyway, everybody can get rich, or so they say. Just sell your apartment at the right time, and you've got it made. North Korea is the real McCoy, and that adds to the spectrum the way the characters interact and the way people react to them.

You mix the three up, and you get multiple possibilities. You can discover more unwelcome corpses. You can have much more nonlinear plotting which some readers prefer to the common whodunit. Other readers can't stand waiting until the end of the book, particularly if things aren't all sewn up. And, by introducing these two new elements (China and Mongolia) I can now include additional items to the menu. None of it is as good as rabbit cacciatore, but Chinese egg rolls are something I couldn't use before.

That is a little bit about how I wrote the book. It was difficult because Inspector O is the narrator of the first four books, which allowed me to describe his internal life and his worldview. In this book his nephew is the narrator. That was difficult for me, because I had to think through how Inspector O comes across to other people and the impression he leaves.

I also had to make sure Major Bing was not just a knockoff. He had to be different from O. He could share some of the same characteristics, but he couldn't be a carbon copy. He had to be different, and that was tough. Additionally, he had to be Chinese, not North Korean. But he is partially Korean, thank God. In some ways that becomes his saving grace even though that's part of the tussle between O and his nephew; the question of blood.

STEPHEN NOERPER:
That question of blood comes into focus in my favorite line in the book, which is said walking in a hotel in Ulaanbaatar. O urges a Mongolian policeman to keep in mind that Major Bing is only half-Chinese. [Laughs]

JAMES CHURCH:
That's right.

STEPHEN NOERPER:
That's typical of the attitude that Mongolians and Koreans have towards China, at least in historical terms.

JAMES CHURCH:
Yes. There's one last thing I'd like to note (and I note this, also, in the fourth book of the series). There's an evil character who makes an interesting observation, and that is a book is written one word at a time. And a reader reads a book one word at a time. Now, think about it. If you had to admire a painting one brushstroke at a time, it would be a very different experience. The same thing with a symphony. You don't hear only one note at a time. A musician can play a series of notes crescendo, decrescendo or use different chords. He has many different options. The same thing with a painter. A painter has many color choices. He can make the colors bright, or dark, and use different types of brushes.

An author has only one word at a time, and so he has to write in color. He has to bring to the reader's mind a crescendo even if it's not really there. A book doesn't evoke the same emotions as a beautiful symphony. That limits one, to a certain extent, as a writer. Alternatively, the challenge is greater to use language in a way that a reader has never experienced before, bringing them new ideas and new perspectives. If O has managed to have that effect on readers in relationship to North Korea, then I'm a happy fellow. When I see my books being checked out of libraries, that makes me the happiest of all. My publisher won't be happy to hear me say that, but it's true. I'd be happy to hear from the audience now.

MALE:
I had expected a different talk. You can study a painting brushstroke by brushstroke, depending on the artist. When you move back from the painting, you get a different view—just as you see a fuller and more nuanced view as reflected in your book. You are very traditional in your use of the noir genre.

JAMES CHURCH:
That's right.

MALE:
One of your remarks reminded me of Julian Rathbone, a British novelist who wrote a book about apartheid in South Africa. The sergeant was black and the lieutenant was a white Boer. The interaction of two different societies was very interesting, as I'm finding in A Drop of Chinese Blood with your cast of characters. I'm sorry to see O drifting off the scene, but since he's seventy, he's on his way out. Certainly it's fertile ground. Will he be in the next book?

JAMES CHURCH:
Oh, I'm sure he will be. If anybody has read Nero Wolfe, the Rex Stout books…

MALE:
Oh, that went on and on…

JAMES CHURCH:
These are slavishly, purposefully crafted using that as the template.

MALE:
But I don't find anything slavish. I find it rather exciting…

JAMES CHURCH:
Oh, I'm glad…

MALE:
For those of us who come to The Korea Society on a frequent basis, yet don't know that much about North Korea, the books bring a certain three-dimensionality. I'm thinking of the spymaster's son, who was really off the wall in many ways.

JAMES CHURCH:
Yes. The Orphan Master's Son. Let me make one point. I'm not trying to pretend I'm a North Korean policeman. At the beginning of the book I had a variety of perspectives from which to choose. One perspective was from the inside out. I could pretend I was a North Korean and try to write a book completely from the perspective of a North Korean. I realized that was absolutely impossible for me to accomplish.

The second perspective was to write the book from the outside in. Then you become James Bond surfboarding onto the beach in North Korea. I didn't want to do outside in. The characters become too thin and stereotyped.

The third perspective is the edge between the two perceived realities—between the perceived realities in North Korea and our perceived realities here. That turned out to be where I spent most of my time—on the edge between the two. Between us and them. It's at that edge where we rub up against each other, where there's friction, and where the misunderstandings become illuminated. You'll see that in every single book, O is pitted against someone from the outside. That's where I tried to represent each side either falling short understanding the other or grasping for something. They can't quite find the right place to hang on.

STEPHEN NOERPER:
One of the appeals of O (if you buy Tory Bosch's line in Slate about his being a traditionalist) is his simplistic nature. He is a simple and straightforward person, and you represent this through his love for woodworking and repeated enthusiasm about trees. This trait shows up in several instances throughout the book, perhaps as a corollary to life. What made you decide to use that representation and have it endure through the series? Is it something you relate to as a traditional, environmental or spiritual human aspect?

JAMES CHURCH:
The truth is that I love carpentry. My love for carpentry came from a master carpenter who would very carefully study every piece of wood before using it. Now, I was paying him by the hour. [Laughter] He was looking at the wood and I was looking at my watch. But, I learned from him to take wood seriously. You have to respect it. It either fits or it doesn't. You can't bend it to make it fit. You can't smooth it to make it fit. A piece of wood has to have a natural place where it belongs.

I don't consider this a mystical experience, but trees are alive; and if you walk by a tree and you know its name (not Dave or Steve, but elm or oak), then it's no longer just a tree. It becomes something special. This seemed a good way, as you suggested, to demonstrate O's connection to something other than this society, this social system that was encompassing him.

You also have to remember that a big part of O's place in the universe is based on his relationship with his grandfather, who grew up in Korea before the Communists arrived. He was born into the Communist system, but he remembers the existence of a different Korea—the Korea before. He recalls a more essential Korea, and therefore, he loves the place.

People often ask me why he doesn't defect, as he's often overseas. Why would he defect? Korea is his home. North Korea is sort of a passing historical fancy. Korea will be there another thousand years. Korea is where his family is from. Korea is where his parents died. And that's why he has such a hard time understanding Bing (who is half-Chinese) because Bing doesn't feel this same connection to Korea.

I don't think O is that atypical. There are lots of North Koreans who know Korea as Korea, and not as North and South Korea. That's why there aren't thousands of people trying to cross the border. Do you know how many defectors there are in South Korea today? Twenty-seven thousand. How many years has it been since the Korean War ended? Fifty? Sixty? Take 27,000 people and divide it by that number. It's a pathetic number.

It's not that people don't want to leave; but many people who travel to China come back to North Korea. Why? We don't really understand that. But much of human nature is strongly drawn to tradition: to home, and family, and custom. I believe this is what holds North Korea together. Beyond the Communist veneer is something else in North Korea that maintains that sense of relative stability and cohesiveness. We tend to overlook that.

STEPHEN NOERPER:
I find that interesting, as well. As much as my South Korean friends celebrate all of the tremendous gains that South Korea has made politically, economically, and culturally; they're wrestling with the challenges that come from the shift to a modern society—which means losing a part of that essential Korea. This is something that I hear quite often. The Financial Times did a wonderful article a few weeks ago about angst leading up to this presidential election. The suicide rate and some other social factors are indicative of this personal discomfort and other challenges. I wonder if there isn't a message in that, as well.

Before we wrap up here for the book signing, tell us about the time you spent in Asia. I assume you were in Mongolia. I assume you've been to Northeast China. We know you've been to North Korea. How do you weave the elements of such a journey into the journey of the narrative?

JAMES CHURCH:
It is a complete cliché (but absolutely true) that the characters begin to take over and complete the writing of the story. Sometimes, you have to draw them back a little bit; but most often they go off in directions you hadn't intended.

Now, O is someone who does extremely well with dialogue. He likes to talk to people, he hates action, and it's hard for me to get him out of the room sometimes. The way I've gotten around that is to just end the section and begin a new one, because O doesn’t like to move. It's easier with Bing. Bing doesn't have that same problem.

Mongolia was such a wonderful experience. The vastness of the place. I have not spent long in Mongolia, at all, but I love the Mongolian people. The place reminded me of South Korea in the seventies. So much energy, so much hope, so much optimism. A young population. The place is cracked, and crumbling, and in need of repair; but that's not important, because it's going to move forward. It's going to develop. And in the middle of this vast nothingness, they have this extremely tall building with a huge sign that says "Gucci." [Laughing] It's so staggering. I can just see Genghis Khan saying, "WHAT is this?"

I knew these characters would do well there. Putting them in Mongolia was easy. Putting O in Northeast China was a challenge.

But that's okay, because the challenge I had was the same challenge he had. He doesn't fit there. He doesn't even want to be there, really, but he has to be. And there's a lot about China that a Korean wouldn't understand. It doesn't make any sense. Why are you doing things this way?

I would like to have him go back to Mongolia; but I have a feeling that I'm going to have to find another place—like Italy. Oh, God! See, I always have to go to the place where I write the story. [Laughing] That would be a sacrifice I think I could make.

MALE:
Put him in Sicily.

JAMES CHURCH:
Ok. That sounds good.

STEPHEN NOERPER:
That's very good. I have only one issue with the book. At one point at a bar, Mongolian vodka was described as "rot." I have as a gift for you an extremely elegant bottle of Mongolian vodka. I would like you to let us know what you think, and expect it will be the best bottle of vodka you've ever had.

The descriptions were wonderfully colorful—from the contortionist and the other characters—and certainly in Northeast China, as well. It's really a joy to read. Are there any final questions from our guests here tonight?

MALE:
Do you expect any dramatic changes in North Korea over the next ten or twenty years?

JAMES CHURCH:
It's already changing dramatically. If it continues slowly and steadily on this vector; in five years or so it will be a very different place. It may still have this repressive overlay, but the society underneath it will be significantly different. Do I think it will disappear? I believe that's pretty unlikely, because the South Koreans don't want it to disappear. The last thing the South Koreans want is to have to take care of 24 million dislocated people. That's my sense of things.

MALE:
Where would you see it? How is it changing?

JAMES CHURCH:
Well, communications. Outside information. Cell phones. Cell phones have made a vast difference. We forget what life was like before cell phones. There was life before cell phones, incidentally. But suddenly, our spatial relationships are completely different. Our relationships with other people are completely different. Our sense of relationship with a hierarchy is very different. That's all going to change in North Korea, because they don't have to go through a lot of the traditional channels anymore. They just pick up their cell phone and connect with somebody across the country. So that's different.

Kim Jong-un, the new leader, says he is very focused on improving the economy, and so far this year he has done a number of things to suggest that is true. We'll have to see in a year or two if that progresses. If it does, and if he changes the balance between the civilian economy and the military, then that will make a significant difference in the way North Korea does its business, makes decisions, and handles concerns about the livelihood of the North Korean people. Things like that.

MALE:
Do the people there seem hopeful about change in the future?

JAMES CHURCH:
The feeling is that at this point, the people have hope; and that gives Kim Jong-un a window of opportunity. People are willing to give him some time to prove himself. When that window closes, it's like magic. One morning people will wake up and say, "That's it. He's had enough time. It's not going to work." But he hasn't reached that point yet.

And he has very skillfully played on this idea of hope for the future. How? By having his young wife appear with him pregnant. This is stunning in North Korea; absolutely stunning. And who knows what will happen when the baby is born. If when the baby is born they have a picture; then the whole place will have become so different that I suspect people will respond to it in a way they couldn't possibly have responded with the regime of Kim Jong-il. It would seem that there's a future there.

MALE:
How much do they know about what's happening in the outside world?

JAMES CHURCH:
I think it was 1972 when I was in Nebraska and Henry Kissinger made his secret visit to China. I was a graduate student specializing in China, and I wanted to read about this. This was fascinating, earthshaking news. I got my hands on the Omaha Herald as quickly as I could to read the story. And the front page story was, "Omaha Fair This Year Will Have Horses and Cows." Well, where's the Kissinger story? There wasn't a Kissinger story. So how much did someone in Nebraska know about the outside world fifty years ago?

I imagine it's close to the same. North Korean television actually has some foreign news on it. There's an active living and breathing grapevine. Tens of thousands of people return from China with news about the outside world. So, it's not completely isolated. It's probably somewhat distorted.

But on the other hand, I like to tell people that we are more isolated from the North Koreans than they are from the rest of the world. Because we are so isolated from them, we think they are equally isolated from everywhere and everyone else, and that's really not true. We need to do some catching up ourselves. And the best place to do that is not through the American media, which does a terrible job of covering North Korea.

There's actually an interesting blog called 38North.org. It comes out of Johns Hopkins. At least people who blog there are people who have followed North Korea for a long time and been in North Korea frequently, and have some sense of developments there. You don't have to agree with everything you read, although James Church does write a column for them. [Laughter] [Applause] .

[End]